Two firsts for Sigma Epsilon Zeta (Montevallo)

LXA SE285 · #1 08-13-2005, 08:57 PM

Saw this on the homepage for Sigma Epsilon Zeta at the University of Montevallo (www.lambdachise.com):

On Friday, August 5, 2005, High Beta Brandt Montgomery (SE409) received word from the General Fraternity that he was appointed to as one of the twelve members of the 2005-2006 Student Advisory Committee. His selection by the SAC Selection Committee was approved by Grand High Alpha Ted Grossnickle. With this confirmation, brother Montgomery officially became the first African-American brother to serve as a member of the Advisory Committee in its 35-year history. Brother Montgomery is also the first member from our chapter to serve the General Fraternity on the international level.

Congratulations, Brandt!

Tom Earp · #2 08-13-2005, 11:45 PM

So, A ++s to The Brothers and The M School!

Congratulations!!!!!

Welcome aboard!

GammaZeta · #3 08-14-2005, 12:54 AM

35 years!?!?! It took 35 years to have an african american on a student advisory board for LXA, a major national fraternity, and the one I belong to!

Oh man, I'm gonna have to just keep my mouth shut on this one...

Actually I can't, that is so messed up that it took 35 years for that to happen! This is 2005 people, not 1955.

It really bothers me that in 2005, we're still getting statements like "(Insert name) is the first african-american/hispanic/asian/ etc. to be (insert position.)"

We should not be celebrating the first african american on the student advisory board, we should be hiding our faces that it took 35 years for it to happen!

Ottor 246 · #4 08-14-2005, 08:03 AM

As GammaZeta pointed out, this is 2005, not 1955. Why do we still care that someone is "African-American," "Hispanic-American," or whatever?

All I'm concerned about is whether we got the best brother for job. I'll take quality over color any time. Try this one: "(Insert Name) is the absolutely best candidate for this position." Can't our fraternity, if not our society, look beyond the color of a person's skin?

Ottor

GammaZeta · #5 08-14-2005, 09:01 AM

Yes Ottor, I agree with you. But do you mean to tell me that in 35 years, only white fraternity members were the best for the job? In 35 years, not a single african american was the best candidate for the position? Out of the tens of thousands of active members we have across this country, we could not find one qualified african american to serve on the committee?

Today, we have african americans as heads of major universities, running major companies, as Secretary of State, researching major medical breakthroughs, but not one was qualified enough in 35 years to be on LXA's student advisory committee?

This brings me to another serious question. What is the racial breakdown of IHQ? What influential positions have been held by people from a minority group? Are our minority students being properly represented with a voice in our national fraternity?

Tom Earp · #6 08-14-2005, 10:40 AM

Dont let this get out of hand.

This is something that The Zeta felt proud enough to announce.

GammaZeta · #7 08-14-2005, 11:29 AM

Don't get me wrong Tom, it's great news for the Zeta. Congrats! My comments have nothing to do with the Zeta specifically.

Only the fact that it took 35 years does bring up some serious, legitimate questions.

We are a major international fraternity. I think that the racial makeup of our IHQ and appropriate representation of all races, ethnicities, religions, etc., is a legitimate reason to be concerned about.

Maybe someone can answer this question for me and put my mind at ease and my worries to rest: WHY has it taken 35 years for an african american to be a part of the student advisory committee?

JonoBN41 · #8 08-14-2005, 06:02 PM

You are taking about a fraternity that's 99% straight, yet a few years ago voted overwhelmingly to ban discrimination based on sexual orientation. To say that blacks - or ANY minority - need to be "properly represented" suggests they are some kind of second-class citizens, and is a mindset that virtually defines racism and bigotry. It's also condescending to those who selflessly volunteer their time. I find your "question" insulting.

Perhaps you would do better to concentrate more on brotherhood and less on pointing fingers. I think you owe everyone an apology.

In ZAX,
Jono

GammaZeta · #9 08-14-2005, 07:06 PM

I owe no one an apology for bringing up a legitimate question and concern. I am not finger pointing, only seeking an answer. You think I need to apologize? How about trying to censor me and brush me off for bringing up a serious question about race in our frat?

And this IS focusing on brotherhood.

I have witnessed discrimination in frats on a first hand basis, including our own. And if you don't think it exists, you are kidding yourself. I never really thought about it until I read this post though, and thinking back, I think it can be a very big problem.

So, why has it taken 35 years for an african american brother to be on the student advisory committee?

Let's see, 12 members each year times 35 years = 420 brothers that have served. Only 1 has been african american.

I am just curious as to how many of our Grand High Zeta or high ranking members at IHQ are part of a minority group?

You can attack me, answer the question or have a civilized discussion about this. I'll know where our frat really stands by the response I get.

docroc67 · #10 08-15-2005, 08:07 AM

Brothers,

I don't have the data or personal experience to give a definative answer to this question. What I have to offer is some logical speculation. This means, take this with a big grain of salt:

Fraternities generally reflect society; as society changes so do fraternities. Very few fraternities started as egalitarian societies. I remember ZBT did as well as a few others. Lambda Chi Alpha reflected its Founder's society and restricted membership to White, Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Later in time, the word "Aryan" slipped into our Constitution!- I remember when my Zeta was dominated by racists who were proud of that fact. I also remember that we changed, as society changed, to the point where were proud of our first Black High Alpha. Last year at GA, we embraced everybody but women! Only a few no votes, maybe 7 or 8, against welcoming gays openly to our Brotherhood. No descrimination allowed. I suspect that there are large numbers of the pre-70s members of our fraternity who would be shocked to read this as well as many Christian members from all generations.

Do the Math- I will guess, over the 35 year period in question, that less than 1/2 % of our Fraternity members are Afro-American. Lets say we initiated an average of 3000 members a year for the 35 years in questions. This would mean that approximately 15 members each year would be Afro-Americans. Let speculate that each Afro-American was a member of a different Zeta. So, 15 Zetas would have a potential Afro-American candidate for SAC. There would be approximately 2985 other eligible candidates for the position. A very small pool to draw from to secure a qualified Afro-American candidate. Other questions pop-up: how many Afro-Americans, or other members, really are qualified? How many hold the required campus positions, Zeta offices, have the grades, and the time to do the job. Oh, and how many really want the job? I suspect that few Afro-American Lambda Chis ever applied for the position to begin with and I suspect that those who did were up against very qualified and ambitious Brothers. Any Brother who gets a SAC position is highly qualified and probably politically sharp.

To me it isn't surprising at all that it took 35 years for a qualified Afro-American to get a SAC position. The pool is too small, the competion is strong. and it takes someone with exceptional talent and political savy to get it. More honor and glory to the Brother who achieved this high honor.

As to IHQ, I am pretty certain that we have had Hispanic/Latino staff members in the past. I don't believe that we have ever had an Afro-American staff member. I am pretty certain that we have never had an African-American GHZ member. I think for the same reasons: our fraternity reflects its society (it doesn't lead it); there is a very small pool to draw from, and it takes qualifications that most of us don't have or don't have time to earn. Plus it cost money to be an active GHZ member.

I have gone to three GAs and have noticed greater diversity among our undergraduates. In my Zeta, we started with a Hispanic member, then Japanese, Jews, and Blacks. I am pretty certain that we have had gay members all a long but they haven't made that fact general knowledge until recently. We reflect changes in our society as does our general fraternity. I would like to say that we lead the way, but we didn't. I can say that we did change with the times.

A final point, Afro-Americans tend not to want to join a "white" fraternity. They have the "divine nine" or historically Black fraternities and sororities to join. Though integrated, I doubt if you will find many Caucasian members of Alpha Phi Alpha. Black fraternities and sororities are different in the way they operate. They are life-long with a strong presence in Black communities. I drive by the Alpha Phi Alpha House in Dayton, Ohio from time to time. Their members join in college and many of them then join an Alumni Chapter to serve their communities later in life. Read the book "Black Greek 101" by Walter M. Kimbrough for an excellent history of the Black Greek movement. It is a wonderful read....

There is my take on this situation. It is speculation. I don't have time to do the proper research. I would suggest two additional ideas: let's cut out the "name calling" and personal attacks; and will someone take up the challenge of doing some research to dig out the facts about this situation?

Yours in ZAX,

Mike Raymond, ZUZeta

GammaZeta · #11 08-15-2005, 08:54 AM

See, that's all I was looking for. Thank you.

Now I'm really curious. What is the exact racial and religious make-up of our fraternity?

With an ever increasing national population in which white is rapidly becoming a smaller majority, do you think we could benefit by recruiting minority groups? Maybe design a part of our recruitment plan to reach out to such groups?

EN596 · #12 08-15-2005, 10:32 AM

Brothers,

I do not have before me the list of all brothers who have served on SAC since 1970, but I do know that an African-American brother served on SAC in the late 80's. In fact, he died in the tragedy of 911.

Tom Earp · #13 08-15-2005, 03:42 PM

As has been so well put by some of the above Brothers, Times have changed over the many years. I think LXA has always been at the fore front for change.

Brothers Jono and Mike R. have both pointed out what some of the changes are and have been.

It is always easy to second guess while in the back ground.

With as many Find Brothers We as LXA have, it may not be easy for say a minority to raise upward in LXA. Should a Black be promoted because they are a Minority? Well, NO. It should be based on what they have done period amongst the many areas that We expect of any Brother.

Do We have Minoritys, Yes. Do We have Gays, Yes.

Are they any less Brothers, NO.

While GammaZeta, You have questions, there is no point in belaboring the point.

No one is trying to shove it under any rug.

I know of a Brother who while at IHQ wanted to da away with State, any small, or Religious Schools (Being Small) and go strictly with Large Us. He is no longer there.

As Mike Raymond pointed out, The %s that you are talking about actually become very small dont they?

I know of Frateritys in the Mid 60s who had white clauses, if that had not been the case, I may not have been a LXA as Kansas decreed that any Group that had a White claus was not allowed to Colonize in Ks. Thank goodness They did!

That must be why I have been doing this for 40 Years!

EN596 thanks for the FYI!

lenoxxx · #14 08-15-2005, 05:01 PM

Man talk about belaboring the point.

Good for Montevallo

Let's get past all of this, a good dedicated brother of any color is always in high demand at any chapter.

Lenoxxx

GammaZeta · #15 08-15-2005, 05:44 PM

It is not belaboring a point. The only stupid question is the one not asked.

It is still shocking to me that it took 35 years for an african american to be a part of the student advisory board. However, En has brought up the point that he is not the first and has cleared up the situation.

I would still like to know though what our racial and religious make up of our frat is. I'd also like to know which areas are more racially diverse in chapter membership. All you guys have an in at HQ, you should be able to get the stats pretty quickly.

Also why don't we start reaching out to these groups more often? I'm not saying specifically target them, but how about we stress our diversity a little more? I think we can all agree that our recuitment numbers haven't been what they have in the past.