Updates on the whole college admissions business - Page 3

newbie · #31 03-16-2002, 04:35 PM

Thanks everybody!!

Carnation, I think it will be hard to choose between the two. Simply because my parents are very intent on me staying close to home, and though both schools are supposedly equal in academic quality, one school does seem to hold a better reputation. Davis is one and a half hour away from my house, but Irvine will take at least 8 hours to drive to. Davis also has a very strong national reputation, while Irvine is less known, but still academically strong (I think because Davis has been around since 1905 but UCI just started in 1965). Also, unfortunately, at my high school ppl seem to think Davis is much better than Irvine (I have NO clue why). Our school, though, is a feeder school to both Davis and Berkeley.

I'm having trouble with what ppl think, unfortuantely

. I think I am being influenced by ppl who think Davis is better than Irvine. I know I should just go with what I feel, but it is hard!! I think, in the end, I'll go to UCI...just because I'm much more of a city girl (though UCI is suburban) while UCD is soo rural (cows...yuck). I also love SoCal

!

I know what you mean, Carnation! People at my school are above infuriated. It is really sad to see!

DeltAlum, a big congratulations!! to you and your son! Wow, that is amazing...only 20 people were accepted?! I really hope everything works out for your family. Did your son get accepted to Northwestern? I really hope so. He definitely has the statistics to get in! Tell him from one high school senior to another, congratulations and good luck!!

TriDeltaGal, I too have heard that the Tri-Delts are awesome at UCI and UCD!

The Greek systems at UCI and UCD are supposed to be fabulous! I will definitely PM you...I would love to hear your story! I will also tell you the theory my friends and I have about UCSB

. Thanks for all your kind wishes!!

CA theta · #32 03-16-2002, 07:13 PM

Sweetie, I'm beyond excited for you! You've come so far, and no doubt about it, like justamom said, you'll take the world by storm. You'll be an amazing asset to whichever chapter you join (cough go Theta cough

), and whether you decide to go to UCI or UCD, realize that both are amazing schools where you'll succeed regardless. I'm so glad that everything has turned out the way you wanted it to from the beginning. I so know how stressed and worried you were! But now the rewards are for you to reap, and the hard work you put in has now given you acceptances! And please tell your friends to not worry about SB. My coworker's daughter was also accepted to first-rate UCs, but strangely enough . . . not UC Santa Barbara. I don't know what's up with that. I agree with you that UC Santa Barbara's decision is almost "automatic," like you said, once you get into UCD and UCI. That is why I was totally surprised when you posted about not getting into Santa Barbara. Just remember tho that Irvine and Davis have infinitely better reputations than Santa Barbara. I have many dear friends that ended up at SB but their grades have fallen off the ladder, and they admit SB is only good for fun. If you have a susceptible personality, Santa Barbara would be a bad place to go, truthfully. So I think everything has worked itself out for you! I'm just so excited for you, C. You are an amazing young woman and all this good news couldn't happen to a more spectacular girl!
Please pm me . . . I can't wait to hear what your next step will be.

Always,

Ang

PS: Edited to say, About picking a school just because others think it is better than the other school you are considering . . . please don't do it C. You are the only person who knows yourself best . . . your likes/dislikes, your preferences for living, social life, location . . . do not let something as important as a college decision be decided for you by somebody other than you. Do not let that happen, sweetie. You have come too far to let anyone else decide where the next four/five years of your life will be . . . and which school's logo your college diploma will hold. The rest of your life, as melodramatic as this sounds, will be determined by which college you attend. You will meet different people at each campus, find different interests, and grow in different ways. But, C. I have total faith that you will make the right decision for yourself!

newbie · #33 04-02-2002, 05:34 PM

Hey everyone,

So basically on April 1st (yesterday) I went to the UCDavis Open House. Before going to visit UCD, I hadn't been very excited about it, till the last few days before April 1st. I thought, hey, why not, keep my options open, you never know, yadda yadda yadda. In fact, when I received notice online that I had been accepted, I was just like, "Oh...that's pretty cool..." (with not much enthusiasm). But of course when the actual admission materials arrived I was much more happy about it.

Anyhow, for the longest time I had always thought of Davis as "cow country." All my friends told me what I had always thought was true -- that there's nothing to do there. A few years ago, while driving up to Tahoe, we passed Davis, and all I saw was an endless stretch of fields. I thought to myself, "How the heck can anyone go to school here and survive?!" (Bear in mind that I am Miss I-need-a-city-and-a-shopping-center-or-else.) So, when my dad and I were driving up to Davis yesterday, I didn't have high expectations. Basically, I was looking to hang out with my friends that go to UCD and just see what their campus looks like. The whole ride there from SF to Davis, I was kinda frowning, thinking how come everything seems so rural.

So I get to UCDavis. I am pleasantly surprised that the campus looks neat and nice. Nothing like a "cow campus." We park, go to a few information sessions, and then wait for one of my friends who's gonna give a tour. Right away I was like, "Now this is cool. I had no idea that UCD looked so nice!" All the way throughout the tour I kept on admiring the buildings and the beautifully vast lawns (not to mention the hotties that go there, but that's another story

). I kept on telling my friend, "Wow. Things are gorgeous here! How am I gonna choose between UCI and this?" She told me how she didn't like UCI when she visited, being that it looked so much like a bunch of office buildings clustered together and how Davis looks so much more like a college campus. I agreed wholeheartedly. The whole while I kept on telling her my concerns about both Davis and UCI -- the cons of each school.

So then we get to teh residence halls. I was very lucky to have my own personal tour guide, because she knows lots of people and got me in to see each dorm's rooms and atmosphere. I was surprised when we got to Tercero Dorm, and I diddn't even mind that there were some cows behind this barn-type building. (That is where UCD's agricultural students do some of their learning activities.) I actually thought Tercero was nice!! This was shocking to me, being that whenever I drive down to L.A. from S.F., I always wrinkle my nose in disgust whenever we pass by Fresno (you can smell the cows from your car window -- with it pulled UP!!). Then we went on to the other dorms. I absolutely loved it. I met a whole host of new people, all who were incredibly cool and welcoming. I especially love the suites, by the way!

So it was time for us to eat lunch (at a residence hall). Surprisingly, the food was not half-bad. It was actually pretty good. That lunch really was the key point of the whole day. It was at that point that I was really battling with myself, thinking, what to do -- UCI or UCD (or what about USC?)? I was so, so on the verge of buying a Davis sweatshirt right away. But, for most of the lunch, I just asked my friend to tell me her pros and cons about Davis and UCI. I shared mine, and then was like, "Hmmmmm...I guess I have to visit UCI again."

(My list for pros and cons were like this: UC Davis -- pros: beautiful campus, warm campus feeling, actually FEELS LIKE A COLLEGE CAMPUS, I feel at home, gorgeous lawns, strong academic reputation, strong quality-of-life ranking (in the Fiske guides and such), lots of diversity (which I love), everything's within walking/biking distance, convenient to shopping centers (easily walkable), nice dorms, etc. etc! Cons of UCD: close to home, not in SoCal, nearest city is Sacramento (sorry ppl who live there). UC Irvine -- pros: interesting psych program, SoCal!, Newport Beach!, people are friendly too, great weather, will be able to be more independent, near Disneyland. Cons of UCI: lack of college feeling -- definitely like an office building cluster; commuter campus, did not feel at home, it didn't feel like a college campus, I didn't think the campus was beautiful, LACK OF DIVERSITY, alumni seem less satisfied, quality-of-life ranking not high, lots of people transfer, need a car to get anywhere interesting.)

Then, a few minutes later, there was just something in my heart (as cheesy as this sounds) that told me that I could really imagine myself as a student at Davis. No need to visit UCI again. I just knew that I wouldn't feel so happy at UCI as I did at that exact moment in the Davis cafeteria. All of a sudden, I blurted out to my friend, "You won't believe this....but I am going to buy a sweatshirt right after this lunch." I asked my dad who was sitting across from us what he thought. He was smiling ear to ear (no surprise there!).

Yep, I think that this post is going to shock some of you all

. My decision not only shocked myself, but everyone who knows me. I had never put UCD high on my list, being that I always perceived Davis as "rural, cow-country, boring" etc. etc. But now that I have actually visited the school, it is so much more like a suburban campus and not like a rural one. Where some people call Davis boring, I agree with the other half who say Davis is "peaceful." The campus is absolutely GORGEOUS, so relaxing, so incredibly beautiful (yes, I know i'm repeating myself--but it's true), and the people are so amazingly warm.

It's weird, I have to admit. I had thought for the longest time that if I were to get into any of my top three schools -- USC, UCI, or UCSB, that I would undoubtedly go. And yet, life is just so strange sometimes...I will be attending a school that I never considered, and yet -- I'm HAPPY with my choice! (I had thought I would only go to UCD if my top choices didn't work out.)

And here's the absolute kicker -- I haven't heard from USC yet. Yes, I bet amycat and lauradav and greeklawgirl and maybe pbpck have their eyebrows raised in disbelief! EVen if I am to be accepted to USC, I am going to attend UCD (unless something drastic happens). Reason? Well, I can't believe this myself, but I love UCD's campus atmosphere even more so than USC's. Plus of course there is that big factor called $$$$$$. And, one of the biggest reasons why? Well, because I love the town of Davis too! (Shocking huh?) I visited the town of Davis after making up my mind to attend UCDavis, and was very very pleasantly surprised (again). It is a GORGEOUS, charming town that I can't believe I ever discounted as "cow-country"! It reminds me of Carmel, California -- one of my most favorite vacation spots in the world. The town of Davis is just so amazingly cute, so welcoming-feeling, so charming...I could go on and on. And thankfully, they have TWO shopping centers and a Borders (which I can't live without) and all these restaurants...all easy walking distance from the dorms!!

And yup, I did buy two UCD things before leaving -- a T shirt and a sweatshirt! I'm returning to the campus in a few weeks to show my Mom what it looks like -- so excited!

(BTW, my dad and I went on our own little self-guided tour after my friend had to leave, and I checked out all the major facilities -- in one word, AWESOME.)

newbie · #34 04-02-2002, 06:16 PM

OK if you GCers have not yet read my previous post (posted just a while ago) -- go back and read it, because this will not make any sense otherwise!

OK so now I am pretty steamed. My dad came home and he told me that my sister said I should think it out more. It pisses me off not because she said I should think about my decision more, but because it seems like she's not happy with it. Like yesterday, when I told her on the phone, she was like, "What?! Are you out of your mind? Are you thinking straight?" And after I explained WHY I made that decision she still didn't seem very happy with me. I don't know why.

Anyhow, she's now like, "But didn't you like UCI's psych major a lot? What happened to that?" Funny, because before when I liked UCI she was like, "Don't go there...it's a commuter campus, you won't be happy."

Now that I like Davis, she's pushing Irvine on me. And my dad was like, "Yeah, she's right we should gather as much information as possible to make the best decision."

But it just bugs me because before I visited Davis, I did SOO many comparisons of Davis and Irvine. I talked to my friends who go to Davis, and one friend who goes to UCI. (I also asked GC if any of you attend these two schools to get feedback.) Then, I went over academic rankings, fin aid rankings, quality of life rankings, etc. etc. I looked at cold hard numbers. I pored over the catalogs, looked at the schools' websites, talked to my teachers, and wrote down again what I was looking for in a school.

It's not like I haven't done my research. I have. I know this is the biggest decision I have made in all my years. I know how crucial this decision will be. I know that it will impact my future.

But it's just frustrating because now that i have visited Davis, I canNOT imagine myself anywhere BUT there!

I'm sorry, just trying to vent off steam

.

GreekLetterGirl · #35 04-02-2002, 06:27 PM

Aww hun I think every one goes thru this with their parents. Like it is a hard time for you and your mom and dad. You are growing up they are saying good bye to their baby, it happened to me. what you have to do it follow your heart, you know where you will be long best go there!!! You are the one who will be there for 4 years not your mom and dad!!

pbpck · #36 04-02-2002, 06:34 PM

You haven't heard from USC? That's ridiculous! I got my letter in early february. Well, regardless, I am so happy for you! I am glad you have made a decision that you feel right with. UCD is a wonderful school and from all the pictures I have seen of the campus, it IS gorgeous! You'll just have to road trip with your sorority sisters to So Cal!Your parents are just excited and nervous and want you to be where they feel you will have the best experience. Go where your heart is and explain to them that it is your experience and all the pros that you have listed about UCD. And tell them you will be close to home! That is usually wonderful for parents to hear. I feel as though we have all grown with you in this past year or so. I am so proud of all your accomplishments! Soon, you will be posting in the rush thread!

pbpck

DeltAlum · #37 04-02-2002, 08:47 PM

Hey Newbie,

In the long (and short) run what is important is where you think you will be happiest -- not your sister. So Congratulations!!

To continue son Zak's saga -- yes, he was accepted at Northwestern as a dual Music and Psychology major. They basically offered no scholarship (need based only there), and with our financial situation, $37000/year is probably out of the question. He got a very marginal scholarship offer from the College Conservatory of Music at Cincinnati, but an excellent offer from Indiana. He was also accepted at Boston Conservatory and we are waiting to hear about financial aid there.

Speaking of cow country, we're visiting Oklahoma University this weekend. He feels pretty much about it as you felt about UCD. It will be interesting to see if he likes it there. The full National Merit ride they offered would be a great relief, but we're certainly not going to force him to go there.

I talked to my dad the other night (he is a high school dropout) and he just can't comprehend that we may turn down a full scholarship. Different times, different generations.

Details at 11:00 as we used to say in TV.

33girl · #38 04-02-2002, 09:07 PM

Hey newbie!

Congrats!! I can relate to what you mean about the campus at UCI looking too "office-ey" - I've been to relatively young schools where all the buildings were erected at the same time, and it just seemed so sterile and cold. I love places where there are 150 year old buildings and 10 year old buildings side by side! Also, no campus w/ 20,000+ students can be that rural. If you really want to see cow country, come visit a few of the state schools in PA.

again, congrats!!

newbie · #39 04-03-2002, 07:54 PM

First off, thank you to everyone who has responded...you guys have been so amazingly supportive and helpful!

OK now here is the BIG, BIG dilemma. I found out today that I was accepted to USC!!! The thing is though that I was accepted to their Spring semester, not their Fall semester. But whatever...I am just so happy to get an acceptance from 'SC, period.

The whole day today I kept on biting my lip and ppl thought I was sad over something...like a college rejection or something. But the thing is, I'm not sad...just worried. Really worried. Just yesterday I was so psyched about Davis. I still am (but less so). But now life's thrown a total curveball at me...I had not a FAINTEST idea that I would be accepted to 'SC...I didn't think I had a chance, and since I hadn't gotten a letter from them even after April 1st, I thought I was rejected. I almost completely convinced myself that I would turn down 'SC even IF they were to accept me, in favor of Davis.

But now that they have accepted me, I don't know what to do at all. Part of me is overjoyed...the other half is wondering, "what the heck do I do now?!"

For the longest, longest time USC was my dream school. Until UC Irvine accepted me...being that I started to doubt myself and almost convinced myself that USC would not accept me. For so many months, all talk about college led me to talk about USC-this, USC-that. My friends and family all thought I was over my head with my love for USC. I was (maybe still am?) completely in love with the school...for its strong academics, warm campus atmosphere, amazing looking architecture, wonderful alum connections, strong school spirit, and amazing sports teams. I thought that an acceptance from USC would be a dream come true.

And now that I have been accepted from USC, I have such conflicting emotions. These few months have really taught me how unpredictable life can be...

Now I can only wait for the fin aid letter. My dad is super proud of me, and my sister is too. My mother on the other hand thinks it's a curse that USC has accepted me. When I told her that I've been accepted she said, "No way are you going...you are going to Davis." The reason why she said that was because USC is so much money and we don't think we can afford it. My mom's even upset that we didn't qualify for aid for the UC system, so she thinks me liking USC is a completely lost cause. After I told her that I HAVE to wait for the fin aid letter to decide, she muttered, "Go ahead...keep on living in that complete fantasy of yours." She doesn't realize that a USC diploma has much more strength than a Davis diploma (in my humble opinion after researching schools). Also, all the college guides have said that "a USC diploma is like money in the bank" or "you can't go wrong with the Trojan [Alumni] Family."

So I have a huge dilemma in front of me. If I decide to attend USC, my dream school, I will probably be putting my family into a bad financial situation and possibly alienate my mother. It's a horrible feeling. I love my mother so much and I hate to hurt her. I don't want my family to suffer financially because of me. On the other hand, if I were to choose Davis, I will always wonder...."What if??????" Davis definitely doesn't have the school spirit nor the alum connections I like (compared to 'SC).

Maybe it IS a curse that USC has accepted me. Right now I feel like it is a no-win situation! I feel wonderful that they have accepted me. Now I just don't know what to do with that acceptance

.

P.S. I'm sorry that I wrote here yesterday, being that I convinced everybody, including myself, that I was ecstatic about Davis! I still am happy about UCD, but now I'm wondering what to do. I've definitely learned my lesson not to post things that say "never will I...."

LexiKD · #40 04-03-2002, 08:28 PM

Oh my, what an issue!

Well, I would have to say that your family is the winner. If you cannot afford it, I wouldn't go. You will feel badly afterward. Unless you can work and help out?

Back in the day when I was in your shoes I went with my gut instinct and it has been geat ever since.

I wish I could offer more, but you can always transfer if you end up unhappy.

Good Luck! I think you will do well anywhere you choose!

newbie · #41 04-03-2002, 08:41 PM

Thank you Lexi for your advice!

Yes, I'd be willing to work to help out. Definitely. Just not more than 15 hours a week probably? (I heard more than that = bad grades.) I would be willing to take out many loans and pay them back myself. I know that is killer, but there is something about USC that I just can't shake off.

Unfortunately there is a huge difference between the costs of UC and USC. UC = about 17000 per year. USC = about 36000 a year.

AHHHH!! I don't know what to do! Ppl told me today to follow my heart. You know what my heart says? Go to USC. So far, very irrational though because I seriously think we can't afford it.

God if only USC cost like 5000 dollars more than the UCs. I would send in my SIR to USC in a heartbeat...

Chrysanthemum · #42 04-03-2002, 09:41 PM

If you have truly always felt in your heart that USC is the place for you, then go! College will change your life, and the last thing you want to be thinking is "Should've gone to USC." I know this. I went to the wrong college.

Financial aid: Start hunting for all the student loans you can get your hands on, and call the school and have a talk with a financial aid advisor...at the college I went to, a LOT of people got their grants raised by saying "I'd love to go here, this school is the one for me, blah blah blah, but I just can't afford it." As long as you don't go to Ithaca College (if you want the whole story, PM me), they should be willing to help. Try banks, credit unions, anything. I know of a girl who financed her entire education at Oberlin on bank loans. Work (definitely no more than 15 hours a week), search the Internet for scholarship money. Start working now to put away as much money as possible. Money can be an issue, but in the long run, what's going to matter more, money or the education and experience?

DeltAlum · #43 04-03-2002, 10:21 PM

Newbie,

I know this is hard for you, but I need to be blunt.

We're in very much the same situation. Son Zak's first choice would be Northwestern, but at $37,000 per year and no merit based financial aid it will almost certainly be out of the question. We would be paying off loans well into retirement. If we absolutely had to, we would, but it is not a pleasant prospect. His second choice didn't come through with much money either. That's really frustrating for a kid who did it right in high school -- top grades, student body VP, super high ACT/SAT scores, extra curriculars, etc.

It's doubly tough because one of his best young lady friends -- another National Merid kid -- has been accepted at all of the Ivy League schools and comes from a very well to do family and has no financial problems at all. She has Harvard and Yale fighting over her. One of here friends asked her today if her parents could afford Harvard and her answer, without any hesitation, was, "Oh, yeah, no problem." You can imagine how he feels right now.

The good news is that a couple of very good schools have accepted him and offered him decent scholarships. But neither would have been his choice. In fact, he didn't even apply to one of them who offered him a full academic ride. If he takes that, we will pay for graduate school. If not, he's on his own for that.

The good news for you is that your parents can afford to send you to UCD, so you will be able to get a good college education. There are kids who can't afford college at all.

Hey, think about this. How about a compromise. Maybe your parents could make a deal with you. Go to UCD for two years, work some, work summers, save money. Then go to USC for your last two years. You still get the SC diploma and everything that goes with it.

Or, get your bachelors from UCD and go to USC for graduate school if you plan on a Masters.

Also, keep this kind of thing in mind. If you go to USC, maybe you couldn't afford to potentially do a study abroad -- or go on a Spring Break Trip, or live in a nice apartment -- or whatever.

Of course then you have to find a sorority with a chapter both places, right? Which is another thought. If your parents figure out how to send you to USC, will you be able to afford Greek affiliation? It's not inexpensive.

When my wife and I went to college, we both just understood that we had to go to a state supported school. Her mom told her if she pledged, they would not give her another penny for college.

In the end, it really does come down to what is the least unreasonable, I guess.

I will say this. If, somehow, you end up going to SC, your mom will be extremely proud of you. There won't be any lasting animosity.

In the end, it all comes down to what is realistic for your family. I know they want the best for you that they can afford -- and will do their best to make that happen.

My thoughts have been a little scattered on this, and I'm sorry I can just say, "Go wherever you want to go and your parents will figure out how to deal with it." But I can't. Life ain't always fair.

I wish you the very best of luck with your decision.

newbie · #44 04-03-2002, 11:20 PM

Thank you so much DeltAlum and Chrysanthemum! You guys, and all who have responded to this thread, are so wise and have given me some of the best advice (including advice from teachers, people I volunteer for, etc.!). Thank you again everyone. I am so grateful! I have since talked to some of my closest friends who thank goodness returned home finally. They have really helped me identify what my heart is telling me – and that is that USC would be a perfect fit for me. They have helped me see that though I do like Davis – a lot – USC is, and has always been, my number one choice. One of my best friends – boy have I realized tonight just how much I love her – told me to sit down with my mother and tell her patiently all that I’m looking for in a college and how I know how much college costs, and how I want to wait till the fin aid letter comes to decide. She helped me realize that however excruciatingly frustrating this situation seems right now, that I have been blessed to even HAVE this situation in the first place. So I talked to my mom for quite a bit when I got home. I told her, straight from my heart, why I have loved USC for so long and why I think it’s the perfect college for me. She still refuses to think I’m being realistic, but thankfully tonight she seemed to listen more. She agreed that we should wait till we see the fin aid letter to decide. That is some progress – earlier today her immediate answer to my USC acceptance was, “You’re still going to Davis right?”

I just know that this decision will, at least for some time, really rip my family apart. My dad really supports me and knows how much value a USC diploma has, and can really sense my love for the school. My sister, though proud of me, still thinks that finances should ultimately decide which college I attend. My mother, well, I know we will have quite a few fights before May 1st (SIR day).

DeltAlum, I really, really hope that things work out for your son. You sound like such a good father and I wish only the best for your family. I hope that whatever college he decides to attend, he will ultimately end up happy. I will PM you another day (when I have more time) to talk more about this situation. Well, about the transferring to USC thing, I’d rather not. To be honest, this may should shallow, but I truly want my USC experience to be one of four years…not two. I know that if I do end up at ‘SC, that I will indeed sacrifice some of the things that I could have had at Davis, but in the end, I think it will all be worth it. Thank you again for responding to this thread!! Since you are a father, it really helps to hear a parent’s perspective on things!

Unfortunately, I do still have lots of things to think about and to compare. I have to remember that, as of now, my plans include grad school. I need to think about if attending USC for undergrad would hurt my financial situation for grad school. I need to think about attending USC next Spring as a new freshman. My friend told me to think about how it might be hard to make friends (at first) as a Spring freshman because groups of friends will have already formed, and because I will be a new freshman, experiencing college life for the first time, while they have already gone through homesickness, being lost on campus, etc. See, with strangers, I’m a little shy, and only when I’m friends with people do I become outgoing. So that is another thing to think about. Of course, the biggest, most frustrating thing right now is finances. So I guess I will have to wait for the fin aid letter…

Chrysanthemum, thank you for your advice to look for all loans possible! It never occurred to me that there were other sources besides what the fin aid letter says there are. Yes, I think you know exactly what I’m feeling…I’m afraid that I will go to Davis and regret ever going there. For so long USC was my dream…and now that I’ve been accepted, it’s so hard to just forget about ‘SC, like just yesterday I had said I would.

Thank you again everyone for all your input…it has helped me so much…this has no doubt been a difficult, but rewarding, college acceptance period for me!

carnation · #45 04-03-2002, 11:25 PM

Dear newbie,

I bet your mom is doing what I've done before--acting like she doesn't like something you really like because she doesn't want to see your heart broken if it doesn't come through! (Lots of doesn'ts here.)

She's probably afraid you'll fall in love with USC and then be unable to make it happen financially...what do you think?

We're kind of dealing with Deltalum's problem here because so many schools consider loans to be as good as grants and my 2 seniors have the option of attending state colleges free (with a little left over even!) or having to pay $4-6000 for private colleges since we can't do loans. Luckily, their hearts weren't set on the private schools or our hearts would be broken.