Why you didn't make it into a sorority.
 

You know how people adore and admire others for various reasons? Different for different people?

Well you likely had not one single quality that either impressed or distinguished you from the herd to the groups that met you.

I can't see it being any other reason since the majority of rejected PNMs swear their performances were without flaw.

Take it as constructive criticism and move on.

I agree.

(You'd better not be thinking about flaming me, either.)

But I thought all the rushees on here are perfect? None of them can think of any reason whatsoever that they might not have made it the ten times that they rushed.

It can't be this James. For shame. How could you even suggest that something is wrong with them?

wow...

I kind of agree with the OP.

If you were cut from a sorority OR fraternity at my school, IMO, something was definately wrong.

Ditto. Our Greek system was pretty self-selecting, because we had deferred Rush--you had to want to be in a sorority in the first place, and you best not have done anything stupid. If memory serves, the girls we dropped were definitely terrible and were often just looking for a way out of the housing lottery.

Re: Why you didn't make it into a sorority.
 

There's a BIG difference between not having a single quality that disntinguishes you and the fact that maybe your better qualities didn't show through during rush.

Clearly there are a lot of women who go through rush twice or three times and finally get the house they want. It is, in part, a matter of knowing how to play the game. Most freshmen don't understand how the game of rush works.

I rushed a girl this year who was a sophomore and had rushed last year too. We talked about last year's rush experience. She told me. "I wasn't being myself or letting my real personality show through last year, and I got cut hard for it. I've grown a lot since then and I think that I have a much better sense of who I am and I hope the sororities can see that too." Of course I loved her because (1) How many girls have the guts to say that they've rushed before and got cut hard? and (2) it was easy to tell that she was being genuine now. At the end of the week, she ended up in one of the "top" houses on campus that almost never takes sophomores. Apparently they saw the same thing that I did.

Sure, there are girls who are just completely boring and indistinguishable from anyone else and wouldn't really bring a whole lot to your sorority. But more often than not, the rushees that get cut are the ones that realize that rush is a game with its own set of rules and regulations -- but they don't understand the rules. They think the way in is to act and look exactly like everyone else, to not take any risks during rush conversation, to be perfectly polite and sweet and nice but not really all that interesting. Those aren't things that make you stand out to the girl that's rushing you.

Let me pose a hypothetical situation:
James has a daughter who grows up and goes off to college! Daddy is so proud of his baby girl! She decides to rush and is cut hard and not offered a bid - she is very disappointed but decides to try again, perhaps by going to a few informal recruitment events. Maybe she is shy, maybe she is quiet - for whatever reason, she is not offered a bid during these COB events. Daddy's girl is upset and comes to him, asking what went wrong. Isn't she cute? Isn't she smart? What's wrong with her?!
I'd love to see Daddy smile and say, "Well, dear, you likely had not one single quality that either impressed or distinguished you from the herd to the groups that met you!"

I agree, this was up for a discussion in another thread. I feel that there are so many situations, how can you classify this as necessarily being them? Yes it may be, but there's a lot of factors!

I think this is a reaction to all of the "why" posts that pop up on GC every time rush rolls around.

There are plenty of people who get cut for technical reasons, or just as often the person didn't click with the group. But I never understand coming to an internet message board for reassurance.

Unless you were at their rush, you don't know the person. You can't really comment on what happened. Maybe it WAS them, how do we know?

We don't have the same process that you guys do, but I can still see where it would be frustrating and kinda bizarre.

At my school before the policy was that every single rushee got a bid, even some that really shouldn't have. I think next semester's rush is the first time that we're getting to cut girls. It'll be interesting to see who gets cut from all houses and completely. Well I offhand know of 1 girl who if she comes to rush will most likely get cut from all of the houses.

The answer to this question can't be provided by a group of folks on some message board. The answer can only be provided by the groups at your school that participated in recruitment. By telling everyone your recruitment story and saying how you're in this club and had cute shoes and all that other stuff is great, but we have NO IDEA why the groups on your campus chose to cut you. And honestly, I don't think we can tell someone who was cut how to change so they don't the next time around. I wish this question would go away on this board, because it's not helpful for any PNM to hear us tell her that she was cross cut and to try again or to bring up her grades and she'll definitely get in. Do I feel for women who don't get a bid? Of course! But I don't know why!

First of all, I kind of hope James never has children. So hopefully that is a nonissue. ;)

I definitely agree that a lot of these girls who post on GC "Why did I get cut from rush?" ARE just looking for support. And I don't have a problem with that, as it seems many people are perfectly willing to give it to them. Getting cut from rush is tough, as we know from the stories about girls who attempt suicide because of it. I know I was depressed and questioning my self-worth after getting cut from a couple of my favorites -- I can't imagine how screwed up I would feel after getting cut from every house, even the ones that supposedly "take everybody." For girls like that, all of the "Aww, honey, I don't know how that could have happened to such a sweetheart"s DO make a difference. I don't think most of them are actually looking for answers. I don't think any of them expect us to be able to say, "Oh, well, my Tri Delt sisters at your university tell me that you were a really boring conversationalist" or "Oh, well, the Gamma Phis there said that usually it's not a good idea to sleep with their president's boyfriend the night before rush starts; that usually decreases your chances of getting a bid from them."

I think that the whole "getting cut" process is hard for a lot of IFC boys to understand, simply because that's missing from their rush process. If you strike out with one frat, you go on to your second favorite and chances are they'll take you. If you strike out with them, you move to a third, if you strike out with them then you start to realize that maybe you're just not going to have any luck and you can quit while you're ahead. You don't have to wait for all the 30 other fraternities on campus to reject you too. It's almost impossible for girls to go through NPC rush without experiencing rejection, but most of the guys I know didn't get rejected at all while they were rushing, because of the way their rush is set up. Which is, I think, a strength of their style of rushing, but that's another story . . .

And on the other hand, I think there are plenty of times when technical reasons have been at least part of the problem, and in that case it does make sense for them to ask. Like I said in my post before, there are a lot of rush rules that most GCers know that a lot of rushees don't have a clue about. How many times have we seen a girl post something like, "I got cut from a bunch of houses and I don't know what's wrong. I felt like rush was going great, and I was having all these great conversations, and then none of them invited me back" and then later it was mentioned that she had a 2.2 GPA, or no recs at a competitive Southern school, or was a junior in a competitive rush. Of course, we still don't know that that is the reason she got cut, but in many cases you can make a reasonable inference that it was at least part of the problem.

Of course there are a lot of girls asking this question who DID get cut for reasons related to their personality. But I think what it comes down to, for me, is that no matter how boring or slutty or badly dressed or even snotty that a girl is, getting cut still hurts. And getting cut hard hurts a LOT. No girl deserves to feel like that. And if hearing "Ohhh, you seem like such a sweetie, I can't imagine why any sorority would cut you!" from a bunch of strangers helps, then what can it hurt? Sure, it's sunshine being blown up her @$$, but it's not like she doesn't know it's sunshine being blown up her @$$. She knows, but it makes her feel better anyway, and right after being cut hard that is a necessity for a lot of people.

Ouch James. Your post kind of hurt me, and I'm not an impressionable 18 year old that got cut after years of my mother preparing me for sorority rush. I know of some absolutely stellar girls that got cut from all the houses this year. I know of some that got cut last year and went on to get bids from the top houses the next. We all do. This isn't fraternity rush where if basically you like them you bid them. So much can happen.

I agree with a lot of what sugar and spice is saying. What do you want me to tell you, that telling me you "babysat your cousins and worked on your tan over the summer" is supposed to impress me? I want you to stand out a little.

There are very few girls that my chapter does not bid - we're not the house that takes everybody, but most girls don't rush us unless they already know most of us - we're kind of COB champs. For girls we haven't bid, I won't give you the specifics (ie "Heather got cut because at SigEp's last party she gave my boyfriend a lapdance then took off her shirt") but it's ranging from conflicts with a girl in the house already, to behaving poorly at a party, to their age (I'm sorry, it's mean, but if you're 28, you just aren't going to want to go play flip-cup with us, we know it), to the fact that their grades sucked.

Just because we cut you does not mean you are a bad person. We've cut girls that I think are totally awesome - they just don't belong in my house. I think everybody has one house on their campus that they KNOW they don't belong in, but they probably still have a few friends there.

So, yes, Susie PNM, even though it's just UW-Platteville, if you have a 2.0 from high school and are just rushing because we hang out with the cool fraternities, and the most interesting thing you say during rush is "So do you drink in the house?" you're going to get cut. I might still think you're fun and want to hang out with you, and I'll still say hi to you on campus. You just wouldn't click with us. IT doesn't mean your life is over.

+

We took people based on two things:
1) What they could give us.
2) What we could give them.

That simple. And I tend to think that you will always be cut for a reason and not letting your personality shine through isn't some crutch - it's still messing up.

-Rudey

:( You weren't supposed to tell anyone.

LOL I probably wouldn't have put such a directly insulting comment in a rebuttal argument lol.

However, does your desire for me not to reproduce actually pertain to girls being cut by sororities? Or did you just want to take some random insults to Pm lol?

You have talked to me, I am pretty detached. I would discuss the situation pretty lucidly and objectively with her.

If that didn't solve the problem, I would just buy her something really expensive.

I am with Rudey when he talks about Big Money jobs lol.

i was just messing with you :D
but as for buying her something really expensive - you can't go wrong ;)

This will always be a big one..........

along with conflicts with a girl in a chapter- conflicts with alumnae! or alumnae that know you have a bad rep, nasty attitude, etc. from high school or elsewhere.

In sum...

If you don't get a bid from at least one house...YOU SUCK!










I hope you all know that I'm not being serious.

Hahaha, no.

I just meant that, if your GC persona is any indication, you would raise some rather f%$@ed up children. Especially if they're girls.

Of course, the way people act on an online message board isn't necessarily indicative of the way they'll act with their kids, so if you're actually a big cuddly supportive teddy bear kinda guy, go right ahead. And you certainly aren't the only person on GC that I would discourage reproduction for. ;)

one issue gcer's have been loathe to bring up is that of physical appearance - if your heart is set on being in xyz sorority and they are, for the most part, 6 ft tall, nordic blonde beauties, who all wear size 0 dresses , have gold plated saks charge cards,carry 4.0 gpas and all aspire to be brain surgeons, and you do not fit that category, that is why you did not receive a bid. if you weigh 200 to 300 pounds, that is why you did not receive a bid. appearance is one factor, and if you are not at least neat in appearance, with reasonably fashionable clothes, you will have to be stellar in other aspects to get invited back. it may seem harsh and superficial, but it is a factor. but, if one sits back and analyzes the situation and feels one falls into this category,and you still want to be in a sorority, you can do something about it-lose weight, check out some fashion magazines, get a new, more
up to date hair style. and i am speaking in general terms, not about a specific sorority, campus or pnm. i know that there are exceptions to every situation, but i also feel that we should be truthful with the pnm's.

James is supportive when he wants to be. :)

I say this is more discouraging then anthing to PNM's, this whole thread would turn me off from rushing... I don't think it's really do anything beneficial but hurting PNM's and changing their minds about how possibly superficial the greek system may be.

But it's realistic.

There are superficial aspects in each and every part of life.

Like a lot of people have said in various discussions.... it's like a job interview. You want to present yourself in the best possible light, which includes appearance. Yeah, it may not be "fair" or whatever could be argued, but IT'S LIFE.

And it varies from school to school. But one thing that will not vary is if you do not have pride in yourself, you will get cut (which includes pride in your apperance. Regardless of weight or money, you can be clean, presentable, and dress in a way that's flattering- 10 rolls hanging out isn't flattering on anyone).

When people don't take care of their appearance, they also tend not to take care of themselves on the inside as well. Yes, there are people who take care of themselves physically but are a mess inside. But if you care about yourself, then you want to present yourself in the best possible light.

:cool:

This doesn't always have to be the case. It really depends on the alumna sister as to how seriously you take her "concerns". This has happened in the past and we still initiated the person an alumna was concerned about and this person is one of my favorite sisters and is so devoted to Alpha Phi.

In all honesty, I wouldn't let it bother you too much. If you can't find your nitch in any of the groups on your campus, then feel free to start another one that looks for your same values. I know it sounds like a cop-out, but it's not. In the long run, those chapters that cut you may feel bad because you're stronger than they saw you to be and may regret it. Just don't give up hope. :D

There are a couple of reasons you might be cut and the main one is you just didn't mesh well with the girls you talked to during recruitment. I know there were girls I talked to during recruitment that some of my sisters loved coming into recruitment, but after talking to the girl for whatever reason I wasn't quite sure what my sisters saw in the girls. When you go in there to discuss your potential sisters you must trust what your sisters say and realize that the PNMs are nervous and might not always be at the top of their game. Maybe I'm just too accepting or nice, but I know going through recruitment I was a bundle of nerves and wasn't always my usual easy going self.

I do know that people go into recruitment with their heart set on one house and end up in another and that's sometimes where you were meant to be. That also means sometimes you just weren't right for the greek system at your university. I had a friend freshman year who transfered to Lehigh because she wasn't happy here and really wanted to go greek. She didn't feel like she fit in with any of the chapters here and when she got to Lehigh she instantly fit in with the Chi Os there!

maybe I'm just all sunshine and rainbows today :)

Well put, Moxie!!

At some universities, it could be due to the choices a PNM has made during rush. Before required release numbers were instituted, big sororities would keep PNMs until the last possible minute and then cut them and a girl would be out of rush (usually after the theme parties) because she'd already cut the medium- and smaller-sized groups. No doubt that still happens where release numbers aren't followed or where they're really not used until third parties.

But guys, I think James is really talking about the young ladies who come on here with stories about how they rushed and did every single thing right, they had a 4.5 high school GPA, people tell them they're so beautiful, etc. but they got cut from every house. We're not talking about the girls who went through rush and were shy and didn't have the opportunity to let their best qualities shine. I mean, I know it sounds awful, but sometimes PNMs can get obnoxious..."Well, I'm so cute, I was a cheerleader/Homecoming Queen/Beta Club member in high school and those houses had the nerve to drop me! What's WRONG with them?!?!?"

^^ AchtungBaby80 I got the same impression from James original post.

ditto.

Sorry to have to mention this...
I'm a little upset that current sorority sisters are basing membership decisions on weight. I was overweight when I rushed and it never made a difference. In the end, I had to cut houses, not vice versa. I have gone on to become a successful plus-sized model AND a very proud Delta Zeta. I hope you are looking at the whole woman when rushing them, not just her size.

Thanks for listening...

Thank you, I agree with that-- I believe that so much is based on who you are not weight...

I think you may be being a little naive. People start judging you as soon as they see you. Also it will depend on the makeup of the chapter.

But the girls can answer better than I can.